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#1301 Farewell Address

from 2018 by Listening to America with Clay Jenkinson

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This week on the Thomas Jefferson Hour, we talk about George Washington's farewell address which was given 222 years ago. Presidents leave a little note in the desk for their successor, and the public always wants to know what's in those notes. We seldom learn that, but the tradition of giving a farewell address is no longer a big part of American life. The last one was Eisenhower, but Washington set the tone in 1796. President Jefferson tells us what he thought of that tone. We know that Jefferson was aware that Madison wrote the first draft, and Hamilton the final draft, of Washington's farewell address. Mr. Jefferson was not too happy about that. He saw that Madison had recovered his senses and had now broken with the Federalists, and he hated the fact that Hamilton played a role in the great man's life. He turned the two of them into the country's leading nationalists. So join us for all that and more on this week's Thomas Jefferson Hour.

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The following is a rush transcript.

DS: 00:00 Good Day, Thomas Jefferson Hour podcast listeners

CSJ: 00:05 — into your fundraising voice —

DS: 00:06 — and thank you for listening. Without you we are nothing —

CSJ: 00:10 Maybe nothing anyway, if you really think about it.

DS: 00:13 I picked the show this week and I really, because it kept coming up in the news, you know that people were, there was these little hidden, hidden references to Washington's farewell address. So I read it.

CSJ: 00:23 You read like all 25 pages of it?

DS: 00:26 32 handwritten.

CSJ: 00:28 What did you learn?

DS: 00:29 That Jefferson really didn't like it too much. I think Jefferson was probably sitting at home going, you know, Washington could have had me write this instead of that Hamilton guy.

CSJ: 00:39 It would have been shorter. I can tell you that.

DS: 00:40 You can hear that in Jefferson's voice this week though. You know, there's a little bit of — I don't want to say envy because that's — beneath him

CSJ: 00:49 Not envy, but I think there was — He knew that in part the farewell address had been written against him because he was Washington's secretary of state — Washington had high respect for Jefferson — Jefferson then winds up breaking with his own administration to a certain degree and threatening to resign over and over again and finally resigning in a kind of huff and going back to Monticello and he wrote these nasty letters about Hamilton's influence and Hamilton's corruption and Hamilton's monarchism and so on. And I think Washington finally sort of thought, you know, Jefferson is more the problem than anybody, that Jefferson, for whatever reason, was a dissenter in a detractor from within my own administration.

DS: 01:30 Hamilton was a great pitch man. Jefferson was not.

CSJ: 01:33 Jefferson was more a character out of a Jane Austen novel, shy and diffident and not assertive.

DS: 01:40 Strong young man with, you know, could really speak well —

CSJ: 01:43 But I think Washington's view was, hey, you're in my administration. I want you to be a supporter of my administration and I don't want you to be a detractor. And Mr Jefferson, frankly you have been kind of disloyal in some respects.

DS: 01:54 There are so many good biographies of Washington and I am going to get into them. That Chernow one is one you really liked.

CSJ: 02:01 I like Chernow, but I'll tell you what I like even better is Joseph Ellis, His Excellency.

DS: 02:06 Oh, sure. Of course.

CSJ: 02:07 Our man Ellis.

DS: 02:08 Yes.

CSJ: 02:08 One of his many superb books. He wrote His Excellency. There's also — Richard Norton Smith has a biography I think called [Patriarch] and it's about Washington. It's outstanding. We'll post those, but there are a bunch of them. I mean Chernow's is great; Chernow's is definitive, but it's also a thousand pages. That's, as they say, that's a lot of Washington.

DS: 02:31 I really enjoyed Ellis on the show last week — that line he used about, now we're playing the race card face up.

CSJ: 02:39 Oh my. Usually it's played face down in America, but now —

DS: 02:43 If you haven't heard that show, just, it was a week ago, you can find it on the website.

CSJ: 02:47 I need to make a correction. My friend Russ Eagle was here and he was a little miffed about my saying that I dragged him up Mount Whitney.

DS: 02:57 Oh, I think I kind of defended him then.

CSJ: 02:59 You tried to defend them a little.

DS: 03:00 You'd have none of it.

CSJ: 03:01 No, because I dragged his —

DS: 03:03 Which is why he sent me that wonderful first edition Cannery Row and not you.

CSJ: 03:08 No, it's the other way around. If he — I walked — here's what happened. I walked in here and you said, Oh look, I've got a great gift from Russ Eagle. It's a first edition of cannery row.

DS: 03:22 I'm sure it sounded exactly like that —

CSJ: 03:25 That exact tone. It was all this triumphance. And so then I thought,

DS: 03:28 It was not.

CSJ: 03:28 — hey, hey, what, how do you rate? You get a first edition of cannery row. I got a lump of coal, and then I said I dragged his — and I won't use the term — up that mountain. And he thought that was an exaggeration.

DS: 03:42 I believe it probably was.

CSJ: 03:43 A little, just barely, but he was here and he said he wants equal time. So I think we should call him on a show soon. That sounds good. Let him say what he wants, you know, see who dragged whom.

DS: 03:53 We should get to the show. Um, but again, I'm really struck by Washington's show of humility and asking forgiveness for his mistakes. And you're not so much.

CSJ: 04:05 No, I think you don't want Hamilton writing your farewell address.

DS: 04:10 It is pretty clear historically that all the ideas were Washington's, he just wanted a scholar to clean it up.

CSJ: 04:17 Yeah, I guess I just wished that — in somewhat simpler prose, he had written out what — exactly how he would have put it. I think it would, and I know you, you'll probably disagree, but I think it would be a more persuasive and a more authentic document had Washington just penned it.

DS: 04:32 Well, according to what I have read, you may or may not know this or you could confirm it, but he actually did write an interim between his first, which was, as you said in the show, shelled. He did write one, but it was so bitter that he wanted somebody to soften it up and that's when he went to Hamilton.

CSJ: 04:51 Well, and Hamilton was a brilliant policy guy and he understood the great man —

DS: 04:57 Pitch man.

CSJ: 04:57 And he was also deeply loyal to Washington. I mean, truly he was a much better cabinet minister in terms of loyalty than the Secretary of State Jefferson ever was. At any rate, I hope everyone will take a look at it. It's — I wish every president actually would write a farewell address.

DS: 05:16 Or not just a secret note in the drawer.

CSJ: 05:18 Well, the secret note on the door is a private thing, but I wish, you know, that Obama would have told us, Here's how I see things as I leave and I wish GW Bush had done the same and that Reagan had done this. This is, you know, I've been reading these books about the presidency, David. It is a horrible, horrible burden no matter who's doing it and you see them graying out and you see the pressure they have. They know things you and I will never know about the —

DS: 05:47 The rewards must be immense.

CSJ: 05:50 Yes, but I do believe that when you've gone through it for for eight years, you have things that the American people need to know.

DS: 05:57 I think that's a good —

CSJ: 05:58 I think an exit of — essay —

DS: 06:01 Maybe we'll get that in his book, in Obama's book —

CSJ: 06:05 Maybe but, you know, I've read Bill Clinton's memoir with great care and I came away pretty disappointed. Most presidents —

DS: 06:13 Worrying about legacy more than —

CSJ: 06:15 Protect, self protective, not that kind of — I remember reading Ted Kennedy's memoir and you know, talk about a problematic life — and he said there has not been one day when I have not been haunted by Chappaquiddick — not one in my whole life since. I thought, right on, you know, he had, he waited till the last minute to be sure, but that was a courageous thing for him to say and I wish they would all be more courageous.

DS: 06:43 We need to go to the show or we're going to turn this into a much, much longer than it is, but —

CSJ: 06:49 Cultural tours.

DS: 06:50 Yes. Next week we are going to answer listener questions. I'm going to have you here if that's all right, sir.

CSJ: 06:57 Not, not Jefferson?

DS: 06:59 No, you. And we have a stack of letters asking about the France trip, so we'll talk about that.

CSJ: 07:05 That's perfect because my essay for next week is about the France trip and then I want to do a show the week after that on France.

DS: 07:12 Oh great. So, um, but in the meantime, you're back safe from the Lewis and Clark tour. And the next one up is:

CSJ: 07:21 Two in January, 13 through 18,

DS: 07:24 Lochsa Lodge, Right?

CSJ: 07:24 19 through [24], Lochsa Lodge. The first one is on water in the West and the second one is on Shakespeare. You could go to the Jefferson Hour — people are calling and — people are calling about France. And then there's the Steinbeck trip. Ross the guy I dragged up the mountain.

DS: 07:40 He's — without him, those would not happen the way they do, right?

CSJ: 07:43 He's Steinbeck more than — Well, you got the first edition. I got nothing. Uh, but that's neither here nor there.

DS: 07:50 There is justice in the world.

CSJ: 07:52 But anyway, the people should go to the website. This is the time to sign up for these winter encampments because we're getting a lot of buzz and they are —

DS: 07:59 You going to take your Ukulele and play it?

CSJ: 08:00 When Kevin sends it, and you know you — Russ, same Russ — now, a little bitter. He said he loved it when you told me to get my own Ukulele, you rebuked me and then Kevin, God bless him, is making me a Ukulele and so thank you very much. And I will play it. Oh good. I will play it at Lochsa Lodge. I might be only sunny side of the street. That's the one song that I thought —

DS: 08:27 It's a little tough.

CSJ: 08:28 Grab your coat and get your hat.

DS: 08:30 Before we go, I just want to thank you, all of those of you who have decided to support the Thomas Jefferson Hour, you can do so by going to Jeffersonhour.com. Join the 1776 Club and hear all the extras that we try to —

CSJ: 08:47 And winter encampments too. And Steinbeck.

DS: 08:55 Yeah, they heard that already.

CSJ: 08:55 Well, I want people to sign up now.

DS: 08:55 Let's go to the show.

CSJ: 08:55 Thanks for listening.

DS: 08:57 Good day citizens. And welcome to the Thomas Jefferson Hour, your weekly conversation with President Thomas Jefferson. Mr Jefferson is portrayed by the award winning humanities scholar and author Clay Jenkinson. I'm your host, David Swenson and seated across from me now is President Thomas Jefferson. Good to see you sir.

CSJ as TJ: 09:18 Good day to you citizen.

DS: 09:19 And how are you on this fine, well, I should say pre fall, day sir, coming into harvest.

CSJ as TJ: 09:25 It is that time when the crops will begin to come in. We hope for good prices because we owe money from last year's crop and the British agents that we work with both in Richmond and back in London are often unscrupulous. They have attempted to enslave us by granting us very easy credit and say don't worry much about when you pay this back, we trust you, and drawing the Virginia planters deeper and deeper into indebtedness. It's a terrible pattern. We bear some responsibility for it of course. But at this time of the year, I always am hoping for bountiful crops and high prices.

DS: 10:03 Well I wish you that Mr Jefferson.

CSJ as TJ: 10:06 Thank you.

DS: 10:06 I talked about to fall coming and I'm looking at that season and it was 222 years ago, actually on September 19th, 1796, that George Washington's farewell address was printed in Philadelphia's American daily advertiser, and it was then reprinted as you know, sir, in newspapers all over the country. In that address, George Washington spoke about his core beliefs that he hoped would continue to guide our nation into the future. You must have recollections of this, sir.

CSJ as TJ: 10:40 Of course, we all wanted him to be the first president and we wanted him to serve in that capacity as long as it suited him. Washington did not want to be president. He felt that his best years were behind him and he worried that if he accepted the role as first president, that he would be seen as an ambitious man. He had after all, formally retired after the, the success of the war and gone back to his farm at Mount Vernon. And he felt that if he came back into the public space that it would show that he had hidden ambitions and that he had never really intended to be the American Cincinnatus, the man who would prefer his farm to all of the glories and power and wealth and reputation in the world. And so we had to convince him after the constitutional convention to take a take on his role as the first president of the United States and he very hesitatingly agreed to do so. Then when he was president, he made it clear that he would like to retire certainly after a single term, maybe even before that, once he felt the government was stable. But as his first term wound down, everybody — I was one, Madison was another, Alexander Hamilton, his closest friends, Henry Knox — everybody who knew Washington and wanted this republic to succeed, pressed him to agree to a second term. This really bothered Washington greatly. He was tired and he felt that he deserved some private time after all of his public duties that stretched back to the French and Indian war. And so it was with the most extraordinary reluctance that we prevailed upon him to serve a second term as president. And then he said firmly, no third term, I insist upon retiring. Well, of course he died in 1799, so he would have died in office, probably had he agreed to a third term and to make sure that there was no turning back, he wrote a farewell address. He had some help from trusted aides, but he wrote a farewell address, which is in a sense his testament, and also his cry of warning about what can go wrong, even in a well organized republic like our own.

DS: 13:19 Mr Jefferson. It would almost seem that this document is forgotten in my time, although I have heard recent references to it. My understanding is that, as you say, several hands helped him to write this, but that the original was written — the original draft — was written in 1792 by James Madison. Is that your recollection?

CSJ as TJ: 13:42 In 1792, Madison and Washington were very close and Madison was essentially Washington's go to individual for public pronouncements. Washington always felt that he was inadequately educated, that his command of English prose, was not what it ought to be, and he always leaned on those around him to help him formulate his ideas. He was a man of great judgment. He had almost perfect judgment, but he was a little slow in the formation of his ideas and he really wanted the assurance from, from those he trusted most that his ideas were the right ones, and also wanted their help in crafting the language, the rhetoric with which he would present those to the world. And so at one point Madison, as a member of the first congress of the United States, drafted a resolution that went to Washington and then Washington asked him to draft the reply, which Madison did. And then Madison wrote the congressional reply to the reply. So Madison was involved at every level in this. That's a very rare moment in American history and even though Madison was one of the greatest men who ever lived, it's probably not altogether appropriate that a member of the legislative branch have that closer connection to the executive. But at any rate, Washington had ideas about his retirement and his farewell, his admonishments to the American people. He turned to Madison whom he then trusted greatly and Madison drafted a version of it. Then Washington was talked into a second term, so it was set aside and when Washington then finally decided he was going to insist upon retirement, by now, his relations with Madison had deteriorated. Madison broke with the Washington administration on a range of policy questions. Washington still admired James Madison. Of course everyone admires James Madison, but he had less trust. And so when he, when he did the final version of his farewell address, he turned to someone he trusted more. And indeed a brilliant policy man, Colonel Hamilton, the secretary of the treasury in Hamilton. Then put the finishing touches on the final draft based upon the one that Washington and Madison had crafted four years previously.

DS: 16:26 But it's safe to say Mr Jefferson that the core ideas for this speech all came from Washington. Is it not?

CSJ as TJ: 16:32 Yes, of course, he had extraordinary judgement. He had played a role, indeed the most significant role in helping to shape the first administration. The constitution was a remarkable document, but it wasn't meant to be a complete formulation of how the government would work. It it works by broad outlines and broad classifications of which branch does, what sort of thing and how they check and balance each other and how elections are conducted in a general way. But what the specifics are often missing from the constitution. I can give you an example. There's no executive order listed in the constitution. There's no requirement of a cabinet around the president in the constitution. The rules of the Senate are not laid down in the constitution. It was I in fact, who wrote the rules of the Senate when I was serving as vice president of the United States. The filibuster is not in the constitution. One could go on and on. There are many things which are part of the habits of American constitutional history that are not actually enumerated or written down in the constitution that was ratified in 1788. And so the first several presidencies and the first several congresses had to think through how those general instructions of the constitution would be fulfilled in actual day to day business of the government and so Washington as the pioneer at this was very cautious because he did not want to set any precedence that might come back to haunt us as a people, but he also didn't quite know as no one could have known just what the president ought to do, and so he used his extraordinary good sense cautiously to lay down a set of early precedents that have continued more or less unchanged through the course of American history. And he also saw during his tenure twice as president, how the early ideals of our founding fathers miscarried. The founding fathers who met in Philadelphia did not intend there to be political parties. There were political parties certainly by the end of Washington's first term and absolutely in his second term, they were very shadowy compared to yours, but they had begun. He thought that there was more unity in the nation than there was. It turns out there were significant sectional issues between North and South and between the agrarian and the manufacturing interests, between those who favored Britain and those who favored France, between the west and the east, et cetera. And so he realized that, and I hate to say this because I am one of the idealists of American history, but he realized that there was going to be more routine politics a

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"George Washington ... was as close to a perfect human being as we believed existed on Earth."

— Clay S. Jenkinson portraying Thomas Jefferson

This week, we speak with President Jefferson about George Washington's farewell address which was first published in Philadelphia's American Daily Advertiser on September 19, 1796, 222 years ago.

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from 2018, track released August 28, 2018
jeffersonhour.com/blog/1301

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Listening to America with Clay Jenkinson

The Thomas Jefferson Hour is a weekly radio program dedicated to the search for truth in the tradition of Thomas Jefferson.

Nationally acclaimed humanities scholar and award-winning first-person interpreter of Thomas Jefferson, Clay S. Jenkinson, portrays Jefferson on the program, and he answers listener questions while in the persona of our third president.
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